Bikes GSpot Oilhead Boxers Mr. Cob changes a clutch in a R1150GS, or WTF happened to my bike.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:34 PM
#1
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Mr. Cob changes a clutch in a R1150GS, or WTF happened to my bike.
Howdy All,

This thread now documents my saga of changing a clutch in a R1150GS, lots of photos and commentary. Hopefully this will of use and help to others.


When I first got my GS I rode the hell out of it, all over the USA, into Canada and even dipped slightly into Baja. Put darn near 50,000 miles on it without any problems and then I bought the Ural. For the last five years the GS has pretty much been a garage queen but as I am now in the process of hacking it I figure I should install a new clutch.

Is this something the average home wrench bender can handle, I have changed clutches on just about every thing imaginable, trucks, cars, jeeps and many bikes, just looking at the GS gives me the phuckin whillies when it comes to anything beyond oil changes, valve setting and spark plug changes.

So am wuss or should I just dive into this thing? Any links to a "how to" would be nice, I don't know if this is covered in the maintenance CD, it won't play in my Mac so I am just kinda floundering about here.
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Last edited by Mr. Cob; 03-16-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:40 PM
#2
Ricardo Kuhn is invisible Ricardo Kuhn
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Yeap mister Cob, Is actually pretty easy, Yes tons of stuff to move away to get to it but nothing of extreme complexity, I will say the most difficult part is to deal with the ABS pump and the related pluming, but if you are pacient you can manage.

I have done it even on my sidewalk (on a really busy street) by my self in less than 2.5 hours and No I'm not that good and/or of a mechanic
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:46 PM
#3
rdwalker is offline rdwalker
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Hi, Dave,

to confirm Ricardo's post, I have seen pictorials here of the GS being split to get to the clutch. I quickly checked Hall of Wisdom for you, but found nothing - you should use a search engine to find more, hopefully a pictorial.

It is not a small job - the bike has to be disassembled big time - but doable by a good home wrench. Your biggest problem is, I think, that you use a Mac. I don't think Big Steve approves of the GS.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:29 PM
#4
gonzomup is offline gonzomup
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This work is a piece of cake to do if you have room for it and basic mechanical skills. There's nothing all that complex in it. Hell, the whole bike behind the engine is held together with less than a dozen bolts, give-or-take. Even though the pics are long gone, this thread covers my experience in all but rebuilding my '01 1150. I can probably dig up pics of specific things if you need to see anything.

Good luck, have fun, and post pics.

Bohdan
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:38 PM
#5
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

Thanks for your replies. I am not one bit concerned about the nuts and bolts of the job, its phuckin around with the ABS brake system and wires that have me giving the whole thing second thoughts. I have seen a few photos where the entire rear assembly; rear tire-final drive, swing-arm and transmission have been removed as a unit and simply rolled out of the way. Like I said what scares me is unhooking wires, brake lines etc. I know the air box has to come out that should be simple what about anything to do with the fuel injection wires, lines etc?
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:18 PM
#6
gonzomup is offline gonzomup
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The number of wires you need to disconnect is minimal since most of the really critical wiring (for lack of a better term) stays in place. Do you have the Haynes and/or Clymer manuals? If not, get both since the cross-check is nice and the descriptions and photos supplement each other.

You could possibly do the job without draining any brake fluid by just hanging the rear caliper out of the way once you pull it from the swingarm. You can do the same thing with the rear ABS sensor, but you'll have to unthread the thing from the guide loops on the swingarm. The tail light and rear turn signals will need to be disconnected, too, but those are super simple; just make sure you mark the wires as you pull them. As I recall, most of the remaining wiring simply lifts up with the rear sub-frame.

Bohdan
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In short, don't be put off by F800GS reliability reports on the net, or any reliability reports on the net for that matter - a few posts get cross-referenced and before you know it, your electric toaster will kill us all on 31/12/99...
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:22 PM
#7
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzomup View Post
The number of wires you need to disconnect is minimal since most of the really critical wiring (for lack of a better term) stays in place. Do you have the Haynes and/or Clymer manuals? If not, get both since the cross-check is nice and the descriptions and photos supplement each other.

You could possibly do the job without draining any brake fluid by just hanging the rear caliper out of the way once you pull it from the swingarm. You can do the same thing with the rear ABS sensor, but you'll have to unthread the thing from the guide loops on the swingarm. The tail light and rear turn signals will need to be disconnected, too, but those are super simple; just make sure you mark the wires as you pull them. As I recall, most of the remaining wiring simply lifts up with the rear sub-frame.

Bohdan
Howdy Bohdan,

Thanks for the detailed post. I am seriously thinking about doing this, I guess I just need some of my lack of skill fears laid to rest. If I take this task on I'll make sure to document it with photos.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:36 PM
#8
drcool is offline drcool
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The info is all here. I am no rocket scientist or moto mechanic but a good manual, tools and internet connection can do it if they are patient.

I had the clutch in my hand mid winter to check a minor dribble and lube the splines. Along the way I found the clutch sericeable, all seals good, replace the slave and a rear ujoint. Use specialists for machine work and or welding if you aren't comfortable and follow JVB's description or get his disk.

Just do it
drcool
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:41 PM
#9
DELTATANGO is offline DELTATANGO
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Don't let them shit you Mr. Cob. It's a bitch.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:47 PM
#10
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by DELTATANGO View Post
Don't let them shit you Mr. Cob. It's a bitch.
Howdy DELTATANGO,

Of that I have no doubt, however I am a "Cob" and if I set my mind to it that phuckin clutch will go in if I have to open that darn Beemer up with a 12 gage and weld the splines with duct tape.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:22 AM
#11
Steptoe is offline Steptoe
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
, its phuckin around with the ABS brake system and wires that have me giving the whole thing second thoughts.
There is no need to break open the rear brake system ?? just leave it all in one piece, it doesn't get in the way. Strap the rear caliper up to the rear subfame.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:47 AM
#12
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by DELTATANGO View Post
Don't let them shit you Mr. Cob. It's a bitch.
It is a lot of work, but an easy weekend job for someone like Mr. Cobb. No worries about the brakes, as steptoe said.

Jim
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:07 AM
#13
Rad is offline Rad
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Nut'n hard at all about it. Take lots of pics, close up, it really helps getting everything back in the proper places regarding wires, hoses, etc.

I have pulled the trans out on its own, and rolled it out as part of a complete rear wheel assembly. If you are working without help I would suggest taking the time to build a simple rolling/sliding dolly to slide the trans out, and even more importantly, back in.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:26 AM
#14
Steptoe is offline Steptoe
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Originally Posted by Rad View Post
. If you are working without help I would suggest taking the time to build a simple rolling/sliding dolly to slide the trans out, and even more importantly, back in.
A trolley jack is ideal..
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:31 AM
#15
Yo. I'm Bow. is offline Yo. I'm Bow.
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Let's have a tech day???
someday I need to look at the splines on my 95 gs , I could bring doughnuts!! & clean up oil spills. Yo.I'm Bow
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:18 AM
#16
def is offline def
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy All,

When I first got my GS I rode the hell out of it, all over the USA, into Canada and even dipped slightly into Baja. Put darn near 50,000 miles on it without any problems and then I bought the Ural. For the last five years the GS has pretty much been a garage queen but as I am now in the process of hacking it I figure I should install a new clutch.

Is this something the average home wrench bender can handle, I have changed clutches on just about every thing imaginable, trucks, cars, jeeps and many bikes, just looking at the GS gives me the phuckin whillies when it comes to anything beyond oil changes, valve setting and spark plug changes.

So am wuss or should I just dive into this thing? Any links to a "how to" would be nice, I don't know if this is covered in the maintenance CD, it won't play in my Mac so I am just kinda floundering about here.
Just get busy and quit whinin'...a clutch R&R in your model is duck soup. Photos are required so charge up your dig camera.

BTW, why do you feel you need to change the clutch?
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:32 AM
#17
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

A long time ago some guy said that "A journey of a 1,000 miles begins with the first step." With that in mind, somewhere in this mess is a GS, I figure its going to take me at least a day to find it and clear away the bike stand to roll it up on. As can clearly be seen the damned Ural gets ridden everyday the GS hasn't even been started since I took the battery out of it about 6 months ago to put it in the Ural. Oh well, time to start digging it out.







Once I get it dug out and tied down to the bike lift I'll start a photo essay ( in another thread ) of my trials and tribulations dealing with this Teutonic mass of over engineered rolling stock. Stay tuned and please don't laugh to much.

PS. YES, I know my garage is a phuckin MESS, that being the case I NOW know where everything is, once I start to clean it up and make room for this project I'll spend more time looking for tools then I will using them.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:38 AM
#18
def is offline def
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I think you should just sell the GS to me.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:50 AM
#19
Abenteuerfahrer is offline Abenteuerfahrer
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Hi Mr. Cob....

The way I have known you on ADV...you can easily do it....
You planning to change the clutch with a ceramic one? Since you'll be opening the guts of the GS why not install one? It'll be a life time clutch and assuming that you'll keep your GS forever, the Kids can still use it when you go to Hack heaven!!
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:47 PM
#20
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by def View Post
I think you should just sell the GS to me.
Howdy def,

You should have asked to buy it BEFORE I decided to hack it. The hack is a done deal and is being built as I write this.
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Mr. Cob, your only source for "Death Valley tested, Cob approved" modified Ural clutch disks, contact me for details.

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Old 03-15-2011, 02:21 PM
#21
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

It has begun.....................




Just looking at all the fuel lines, brake lines and wires that have to be moved or disconnected is giving me the creeps.
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Mr. Cob, your only source for "Death Valley tested, Cob approved" modified Ural clutch disks, contact me for details.

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Old 03-15-2011, 02:24 PM
#22
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer View Post
Hi Mr. Cob....

The way I have known you on ADV...you can easily do it....
You planning to change the clutch with a ceramic one? Since you'll be opening the guts of the GS why not install one? It'll be a life time clutch and assuming that you'll keep your GS forever, the Kids can still use it when you go to Hack heaven!!
Howdy Abenteuerfahrer,

After reading about all the problems Mikepa, had just getting the ceramic clutch to work I don't want to mess with it doing this ONCE is more then I want to mess with doing if four times is way more then I am prepared to deal with.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:12 PM
#23
def is offline def
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Abenteuerfahrer,

After reading about all the problems Mikepa, had just getting the ceramic clutch to work I don't want to mess with it doing this ONCE is more then I want to mess with doing if four times is way more then I am prepared to deal with.
I agree. Stock will work fine.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:15 PM
#24
def is offline def
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy def,

You should have asked to buy it BEFORE I decided to hack it. The hack is a done deal and is being built as I write this.
You're gonna make an already ugly bike even uglier...its going to look like a farm implement when finished....shame.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:18 PM
#25
def is offline def
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post

Like the tractor-like exhaust mod. Do you put a beer can over it when it rains? (Heh-heh).
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:24 PM
#26
FatChance is offline FatChance
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Dave

It is very simple to get to this condition:





I had to do this to replace my 1150GS fuel distributor. As you can see, the rest of the job disconnecting the rear brake system and unbolting the transmission and sliding it out will be a pretty straight forward affair. Good luck!
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:41 PM
#27
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Nah, not so bad:



Jim
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:20 PM
#28
FotoTEX is offline FotoTEX
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I always enjoy the above poster, but with the Cowboys flag on your wall, I like you even more. Jim always has good advice and now I learn he has good taste in football teams. Any advice for next year with the Boys??
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:09 PM
#29
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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I always enjoy the above poster, but with the Cowboys flag on your wall, I like you even more. Jim always has good advice and now I learn he has good taste in football teams. Any advice for next year with the Boys??
Sad to say, don't bet on a Super Bowl!

Jim
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:42 PM
#30
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

Tomorrow morning I'll start to take it apart, looking at the photos you folks have posted makes it easier but looking at my bike as it is now I am trying to figure out HOW to get the air box off with out disconcerting a whole lot of what look like fuel lines. Maybe once I start taking things apart it will become clear, did I ever tell ya how SIMPLE the Ural is to work on..............
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:45 PM
#31
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by def View Post
Like the tractor-like exhaust mod. Do you put a beer can over it when it rains? (Heh-heh).
Howdy def,

The "tractor like exhaust mod" is part of the high buck TT pannier setup.
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:50 AM
#32
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy All,

Tomorrow morning I'll start to take it apart, looking at the photos you folks have posted makes it easier but looking at my bike as it is now I am trying to figure out HOW to get the air box off with out disconcerting a whole lot of what look like fuel lines. Maybe once I start taking things apart it will become clear, did I ever tell ya how SIMPLE the Ural is to work on..............
You will have to disconnect the fuel regulator and lines. Once you get the tail up, and complete removal of all the bolts and screws to the air box, you can pull it out with the air box. It is somewhat imbedded into the airbox.



Since you already have the tank off, you just disconnect it from the throttle bodies.

Jim
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:41 AM
#33
tagesk is offline tagesk
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Originally Posted by FotoTEX View Post
Jim always has good advice and now I learn he has good taste in football teams.
While we wait for mechanical updates, I can inform you that my Italian son-in-law told me that:
There are two important things in life, and you can't change any of them.
Who you Mama is, and which (football) team you love.


Back to Mr. Cob.

[TaSK]
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:33 PM
#34
Galloglaich is offline Galloglaich
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Hello,sorry but dont think its necessary to remove airbox/regulator.Just push the intake tubes into the box,loosen the battery box and pivot the rear subframe up to get clearance Cheers Chris Sorrt reread Mr JVBs post and perhaps I miss understood what he was saying
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:45 PM
#35
SourKraut is offline SourKraut
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I didn't break into a single brake line or any significant electrical components when I removed the trans on mine. I also didn't break apart the fuel distribution system - just disconnected the injectors at the throttle body. It was a bit of a struggle to get the airbox out but not that terrible. A nice tip is the strap from the centerstand to the front wheel which makes it impossible to push off the center stand when wrestling with the trans.

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Old 03-16-2011, 01:03 PM
#36
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

Thanks for the tips. The bolts that the SUB-FRAME pivots on, and the TOP bolts that hold the foot-peg brackets on, are they Loc-Tited, do I need to heat them to break them loose, they seem very tight an I don't want to strip the threads in the aluminum case. Thanks for any information you can share.

Removing the starter motor I can see what I think is the edge of the clutch disk and the machined surfaces that are on either side of it, using my dial caliper the disk measures .230" or 5.842mm wide, does anyone know what the wear limits are on the disk and is this a good way to check the wear?
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:18 PM
#37
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by SourKraut View Post
I didn't break into a single brake line or any significant electrical components when I removed the trans on mine. I also didn't break apart the fuel distribution system - just disconnected the injectors at the throttle body. It was a bit of a struggle to get the airbox out but not that terrible. A nice tip is the strap from the centerstand to the front wheel which makes it impossible to push off the center stand when wrestling with the trans.

You are correct. It doesn't need to come out. At the time I didn't know, so I took it out. Maybe it would be easier to leave it in, but then again, maybe not. Once you have the back lifted the airbox comes out pretty easily.

Jim
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:21 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy All,

Thanks for the tips. The bolts that the SUB-FRAME pivots on, and the TOP bolts that hold the foot-peg brackets on, are they Loc-Tited, do I need to heat them to break them loose, they seem very tight an I don't want to strip the threads in the aluminum case. Thanks for any information you can share.

Removing the starter motor I can see what I think is the edge of the clutch disk and the machined surfaces that are on either side of it, using my dial caliper the disk measures .230" or 5.842mm wide, does anyone know what the wear limits are on the disk and is this a good way to check the wear?
I'd have to check, but from memory you are well within the wear limit. That said, until you actually pull the disk you can't be sure of its actual condition.

They may be loctited, but it should be only blue loctite, so no heat required. That said, it depends on what the PO did to the bike. If they really do not want to turn, a little heat, until your spit sizzles, wont hurt.

Jim
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:22 PM
#39
SourKraut is offline SourKraut
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I didn't use heat on those bolts but it can't hurt to heat them and I may have simply gotten lucky. Mine was at 54K miles when I did this work and the new clutch I threw in didn't look any thicker than the original but I didn't measure them. I did put a new pressure plate assembly in (both sides) as recommended which brings the cost up significantly. The clutch felt absolutely no different and I only did it since I was in there to remove the trans for a rebuild. Put in a new slave cylinder while you have it open... these projects have a way of snowballing.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:24 PM
#40
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I'd have to check, but from memory you are well within the wear limit. That said, until you actually pull the disk you can't be sure of its actual condition.

They may be loctited, but it should be only blue loctite, so no heat required. That said, it depends on what the PO did to the bike. If they really do not want to turn, a little heat, until your spit sizzles, wont hurt.

Jim
Howdy Jim,

I bought the bike brand new, the clutch is the original one that came from the factory, everything looks clean in the bell-housing I sure hope I am not doing all this for nothing.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:29 PM
#41
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Jim,

I bought the bike brand new, the clutch is the original one that came from the factory, everything looks clean in the bell-housing I sure hope I am not doing all this for nothing.
Not for nothing. 50K miles, with an experienced dry clutch guy like yourself isn't much miles unless you slipped it a lot at above 2K RPM. That said, it never hurts to check it out, and lube the clutch spline when you do.

I assume that your clutch never gave you any issues, but this is a good time to check out your clutch slave for leaks, and the clutch line for rust. Rust on the line means you should replace the line before it contaminates the slave cylinder, cause a leak, and ruin your clutch disk.

Jim
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:36 PM
#42
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Not for nothing. 50K miles, with an experienced dry clutch guy like yourself isn't much miles unless you slipped it a lot at above 2K RPM. That said, it never hurts to check it out, and lube the clutch spline when you do.

I assume that your clutch never gave you any issues, but this is a good time to check out your clutch slave for leaks, and the clutch line for rust. Rust on the line means you should replace the line before it contaminates the slave cylinder, cause a leak, and ruin your clutch disk.

Jim
Howdy Jim,

I can honestly say that I never abused the clutch in the GS, never did any serious off road riding with it most the GS riding I did was with my then long time riding partner "Dangerous Don" who had the same year bike bought within a month of when I bought mine, at 42,000 miles his clutch went out. Don was a more aggressive rider then I but not that much, that's the main reason I am concerned about the clutch, I don't want to have to change it after the hack is installed as that would be MUCH more work.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:37 PM
#43
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Jim,

I can honestly say that I never abused the clutch in the GS, never did any serious off road riding with it most the GS riding I did was with my then long time riding partner "Dangerous Don" who had the same year bike bought within a month of when I bought mine, at 42,000 miles his clutch went out. Don was a more aggressive rider then I but not that much, that's the main reason I am concerned about the clutch, I don't want to have to change it after the hack is installed as that would be MUCH more work.
Sounds like you have the right idea, and attitude. You wont regreat at least checking it out, and the spline lube, for piece of mind!

Jim
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:33 PM
#44
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
Yeap mister Cob, Is actually pretty easy, Yes tons of stuff to move away to get to it but nothing of extreme complexity, I will say the most difficult part is to deal with the ABS pump and the related pluming, but if you are pacient you can manage.

I have done it even on my sidewalk (on a really busy street) by my self in less than 2.5 hours and No I'm not that good and/or of a mechanic
Howdy Ricardo,

You Sir must be a master wrench bender and I say that with sincere respect, if you can change one of these clutches in 2.5 hours you are a GS God.

I spent the better part of three hours today just getting the phucking gear shift indicator wire unplugged at its junction up in front of the ABS unit and then threading that wire out from behind all the other stuff it was originally installed BEHIND. What ever those Kuruts were smoking when they designed and assembled this piece of Teutonic madness must have been some good shit.

However, I did succeed in getting it all tore down, if it will ever be put back together and run again is something I won't take any bets on.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:14 PM
#45
rinho is offline rinho
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I did not read all the previous page but I just finish to replace mine.
Disk was 5.7mm , still ok(theorically) and brand new is 6.59mm (was slipping some time à high speed, especially since chip+K&N+Laser exhaust are on)
Check the clutch housing, if it's blueish and/or have some (very small) crack, replace it.
Put some marks on the flywheel and the two parts of the clutch housing, just in case the mark already present are not visible anymore ... everything is balanced, the oem mark should be at 120°)
Take care to remore the transmission being carrefully horizontal all the way, to be sure to not bend the clutch rod (in the main shaft) (keeping the rear wheel to help support the weight is not a good idea)
When getting the master clutch out, if there's any oil (even just a little) the seal may be weak... you don't want them to leak and send oil on the new clutch (trough the rod channel)
Lube the spline, but not too much (remember the clutch disc is just there)

I had to remove body throttles to be able able to remove battery tray (I did not want to remove the cables, adjusted few month ago)

some bolt on the frame are loctited... those on the top of pegs holder and those connecting the spring strut, the subframe and the engine.
In all of these screw, there's no aluminium involved.

Take care about the screw lenght for the peg holders... not the same lenght on each side

I think that's it
Enjoy

And of course, the belt between center stand and front wheel is absolutly necessary... you are going to shake the bike a little bit to remove the transmission and push to put it back
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:00 PM
#46
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Instead of starting another thread I am just going to continue posting to this one as you folks who are following it are being VERY helpful and I can't put into words how much I appreciate the help and advise.

OK, on with the show. After I took the rear wheel off I noticed what looked like signs of leakage from somewhere in the final drive.


I figured as long as I was doing this I might as well pull it off and see if I could identify where it was leaking. I watched when this 1100 final drive was installed on the bike so I had a pretty good idea of how to go about removing it. Used my heat gun to soften the Loc-Tite.


After removing the final drive I looked inside the rubber cover and looked at where I assume the pinion seal is and I really didn't see any sign of leakage. Anyway its out now.


Now that I had gone this far, why stop, I have heard all kinds of horror stories about drive-shafts and their U-Joints going bad so I proceeded to take off the swing-arm and then the drive-shaft.


I popped the drive-shaft off, wiggled the joints in every way possible, they seem fine to me no slop that I can see or feel. Again this is beyond my pay grade so I don't know if I am wasting time or just doing what should be done.

I next pulled the clutch slave cylinder, when I first pulled it out a very small amount of dirty water came out with the slave cylinder, not much but I wasn't expecting that. After getting the slave cylinder out and looking at it the face of it was covered with what looked like a VERY light coating of mud. I took my time and carefully cleaned it up, this is what it now looks like, again should I replace it or just throw it back in. I did NOT take the slave cylinder apart, so I can't say what it looks like inside, should I take it apart or just replace it?

As I said at the beginning of this saga, I was NOT having any clutch problems I just didn't want to install the hack and THEN have to tear everything apart.


Next comes the thing that took me more time then taking the final drive, swing-arm and drive-shaft off. What sick #&^@%$#)(**&^%$er designed and then installed the wires running from the gear shift indicator to its junction plug? The indicator WON'T come out of the hole its wires run through on the transmission case so you have to unplug the wires at its junction and the pull the wires and the junction plug through the hole in the transmission case in order to get it out of the way so you can pull the transmission.

No big deal you say, just unplug the darn thing and pull it through. Well in a perfect world it would be just that easy. First you have to find the junction, then you have to dig it out of the rest of the wiring loom so it can be unplugged, OK I got it unplugged, now how do I snake the plug out from behind the ABS unit, the battery box, the mass of wiring, the frame strut running from the top engine mount bolt to the steering head and then get it past the sub-frame which is now tied to the handlebars. Well three hours, two Coca-Cola's, a busted thumb nail, a slew of cuss words that would make a Sailor blush later, I had the damned wire junction block out and the shift indicator removed.

How I am going to get that back in the original position I don't have a clue, I can see chaffing on the original wire loom where it must have vibrated against the battery box, frame or gas tank, with the ABS unit there is VERY little room for anything. Here is the junction after I had fished it out from behind the other wires, after struggling to disconnect it the fun started when trying to get it clear of all the obstructions.


Sorry for the bad photo by this time I was a bit unsettled and wasn't paying attention to the camera. Here again WHY did the Kuruts run the darn starter wires AROUND the battery box mount on top of the transmission? Its hard enough to get the darn mounts that are screwed into the top of the transmission to clear the bottom of the battery box with out having to bend the box up while pulling the transmission and at the same time pushing those wires up and over the battery box mounts.


I pulled the transmission, this is what the input shaft splines looked like before I cleaned them up, no sign of seal leakage, just crusted grease.


Here's what the clutch splines looked like before I cleaned them up.


WTF happened to my bike.


Here's the input shaft splines after I cleaned them up.


BEFORE I pulled the clutch assembly apart I marked all the mating parts so they could be reassembled in the same way, in case they proved to be in good shape.


The spring looked good, the surfaces of the pressure plate and spring were not warped or worn, the pressure plate was FLAT as checked with a piece of ground stock.


The disk looked good on both sides, it measured an average of 6.35mm or .250" in thickness.




This friction surface also looked to be in good shape, it was also FLAT.


This how it looked behind the clutch assembly after I wiped the dust from disk wear off of the surfaces, no signs of rear main seal leakage.


The front of the transmission after I blew the dust off, no signs of input shaft seal leakage.


This is the transmission output shaft, no sign of leakage. No sign of leakage around the shift indicator shaft.


This is the bore of the clutch slave cylinder after I cleaned it up.


To my NON professional eyes everything looks good, PLEASE those of you who have real world knowledge of these things advise me on what to replace, reuse or have checked by someone who knows the the heck they are doing. THANKS.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:16 PM
#47
johnjen is online now johnjen
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The only questionable aspect so far is the brown water/fluid that came out with the clutch slave cylinder. As a further way to check it's seals integrity is to bleed the slave cylinder and check to see what color the old hydraulic fluid looks like. If it comes out black, with chunks, replace it. If it comes out mostly clear but darker, that means the seal is still good.

The splines look good.

The clutch pieces look good. I forget the range of 'acceptable' thickness for the clutch disc but it seems like your at about the mid way point. That is a tough call.

If you know you're going to be tough on the clutch AND you're going to be putting on a bunch of miles after it's all back together I'd replace it and keep the original as a spare. Of course going back in the next time will be easier, having done it once by then, BUT it's still a bunch of work.

And that weeping of oil on the final drive housing is probably due to the boot allowing a small amount of fluid to get past it and accumulate and collect dust. I wouldn't worry about it.

JJ
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:57 PM
#48
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
The only questionable aspect so far is the brown water/fluid that came out with the clutch slave cylinder. As a further way to check it's seals integrity is to bleed the slave cylinder and check to see what color the old hydraulic fluid looks like. If it comes out black, with chunks, replace it. If it comes out mostly clear but darker, that means the seal is still good.

The splines look good.

The clutch pieces look good. I forget the range of 'acceptable' thickness for the clutch disc but it seems like your at about the mid way point. That is a tough call.

If you know you're going to be tough on the clutch AND you're going to be putting on a bunch of miles after it's all back together I'd replace it and keep the original as a spare. Of course going back in the next time will be easier, having done it once by then, BUT it's still a bunch of work.

And that weeping of oil on the final drive housing is probably due to the boot allowing a small amount of fluid to get past it and accumulate and collect dust. I wouldn't worry about it.

JJ
Howdy JJ,

Before I pulled the clutch slave cylinder off, I noticed what appeared to be dirty water coming out of the protective rubber tube that surrounds the actual fluid line. I am assuming this water gets into the rubber tube from the top and then runs down to the slave cylinder. Do you know of any way to seal the slave cylinder bore other then the stock gasket, would it do any good to slop some non harding RTV sealer on the rear mating face of the slave cylinder where it contacts the gasket or perhaps a bit around the outer circumference of the cylinder itself before bolting it in place.

I have heard of a clutch disk modified by "Bruno", it is the stock disk that has the clutch hub spaced back from the disk itself this allows full contact with the input shaft splines, its a pretty spendy item but I want to do this ONCE and with luck ride the darn bike till I ready to sell it or just give up riding, this is my "Old Man Bike". I plan on riding it for a long time once its hacked.
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:38 AM
#49
johnjen is online now johnjen
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy JJ,

Before I pulled the clutch slave cylinder off, I noticed what appeared to be dirty water coming out of the protective rubber tube that surrounds the actual fluid line. I am assuming this water gets into the rubber tube from the top and then runs down to the slave cylinder. Do you know of any way to seal the slave cylinder bore other then the stock gasket, would it do any good to slop some non harding RTV sealer on the rear mating face of the slave cylinder where it contacts the gasket or perhaps a bit around the outer circumference of the cylinder itself before bolting it in place.

No I haven't heard of anyway to 'seal' that protective over tube from collecting water etc. Perhaps some one else who has, will add their 2¢ tomorrow. But be sure and bleed the slave cylinder BEFORE you re-install it to see what shape the fluid is in.


I have heard of a clutch disk modified by "Bruno", it is the stock disk that has the clutch hub spaced back from the disk itself this allows full contact with the input shaft splines, its a pretty spendy item but I want to do this ONCE and with luck ride the darn bike till I ready to sell it or just give up riding, this is my "Old Man Bike". I plan on riding it for a long time once its hacked.
I haven't heard of them but I'm sure some one has. Again perhaps tomorrow some one will give you some feedback on them. And depending on how hard you are going to be on the clutch, seeing 100K miles isn't an uncommon number of miles on a standard clutch.

JJ
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:36 AM
#50
billyt53 is offline billyt53
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Before I pulled the clutch slave cylinder off, I noticed what appeared to be dirty water coming out of the protective rubber tube that surrounds the actual fluid line. I am assuming this water gets into the rubber tube from the top and then runs down to the slave cylinder. Do you know of any way to seal the slave cylinder bore other then the stock gasket, would it do any good to slop some non harding RTV sealer on the rear mating face of the slave cylinder where it contacts the gasket or perhaps a bit around the outer circumference of the cylinder itself before bolting it in place.

__________________________________________________ ____________


Cut a few inches of the rubber (plastic) covering off the line so that water doesn't accumulate at the bend or replace the line with a stainless steel one from a later model.


Billy
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:08 AM
#51
Reverse is offline Reverse
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I'm very impressed. I would be hyperventilating if my bike looked like that... in my own garage

BTW, what's a 'Kurut'?
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:26 AM
#52
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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Dave,
I'll comment from back to front:

Leaking Rear Drive: The pinion seal has started to leak. This usually indicates that ring gear bearing failure isn't too far behind. You can waste the money and fit a new pinion seal but you'll be into that rear drive again in the near future.

Clutch Slave Cylinder: The #1 cause of death to these is failure of the little bearing in the center of the piston. When the bearing fails the spinning clutch rod begins to spin the whole piston in the bore of the slave cylinder. It quickly heats the fluid to a dark black color and then you'll lose the action @ your clutch lever. These slave cylinders are a throw-away item and it is completely insane to reassemble the bike without installing a new slave cylinder from Beemer Boneyard - NOT from BMW. I have had 3 brand new slave cylinders from BMW that were defective right from the dealer. Either I am really that unlucky or BMW bought the bargain basement defects from Magura because they were less money.
Additional sealing of this unit is completely unnecessary. Just replace it and the gasket w/ the kit available from Beemer Boneyard.

Neutral & Gear Indicator Switches: I told you to disconnect them @ the connectors, didn't I?!!!

Driveshaft: It is very rare that these u-joints exhibit any 'slop' before they grenade. If you are lucky, you might find a very faint binding in one or both of the joints. But they feel this way when new also! It doesn't mean that it is good. BMW suggests replacing the shaft every 40,000 miles and i adhere to that for the simple reason that many have grenaded at 42,000+ miles. I've had a few here. It isn't a pleasant experience and when they come apart you are at risk of destroying the swingarm and rear drive. The choice is yours but I would send it out to have the u-joints replaced if it were mine.

Transmission Input Shaft Splines: Yours look VERY good so I'd consider you one of the lucky ones. However, this doesn't mean that it will last 'forever' since we still have a design flaw here.

Clutch Disc: The wear limit is 4.5mm "(measured on rivets of clutch plate using tips of sliding caliper, pressed together by hand)" as stated by BMW.

Modified Clutch Disc: I do NOT know what Bruno is charging to modify the clutch discs right now. As I told you, he built the prototype for me that I installed in an R1150RT last year and I have another coming for an R1150R that is currently @ the shop. It is a common sense solution to BMW's mistake and has worked well. I don't know if he is even willing to sell any additional ones to the public yet. I said I would get one for you and I think you'd be crazy not to install it since you will be adding the extra drag of the sidecar to the GS. But that is your call. You are doing this service work now to avoid needing to do it after the sidecar is installed, right?

Engine Rear Main Seal: These very rarely leak on Oilheads so being dry is not uncommon. Nothing to do there.

That's about it! The choice is yours but I'd wager that failure to replace the slave cylinder, install the modified clutch disc and have the u-joints replaced (or at least inspected by Bruno) will leave you in a foul mood somewhere far from home in the not too distant future. I've seen it too many times to have any other opinion. You are not looking at spending much money to have these things done now, while everything is apart, but I know you are in a rush to get the GS back together and move on to the next step of installing the sidecar.

I have added some video to the "Failure" gallery to explain my comments - As of 07.30 hours the videos are still loading and I am headed out for a bit so check the gallery in an hour or so. There are 3 videos for you:
http://affordable-beemers.smugmug.co...07100083_YnToU
Call me later if you have questions. I'll be back by noon, C
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:53 AM
#53
Tbone is offline Tbone
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Great advice Bounty hunter!

My slave looked like this at 50k.

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Old 03-17-2011, 04:59 AM
#54
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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I agree with most of what bounty hunter says, with a couple additions and modifications. First, I would replace the clutch line, and probably the slave cylinder. I might also consider drilling a drain hole directly below the slave cylinder in case it does leak, so the fluid will drain out more than hit the clutch.

As for the clutch, your call, and with the added stress of the new sidecar it might be a good idea to replace it. The clutch disk splines looked a bit worn too, though the input shaft on the trans looked great! Good thing you tore it down, as they obviously needed cleaning and lubing.

I would have the driveshaft checked, ONLY because of the added sidecar stresses. Same with the Final drive. However, if you are in need of reassembly soon, those can wait for later. I personally have seen seeping front final drive seals that lasted many tens of thousands of miles, and yours looked like a very slight seep, if it was leaking at all. That may be oil from something else, it is not that uncommon since that part of the drive gets a lot of road grime from the front wheel. Don't forget to check your pivot bearings on the FD and swingarm. This is a good time to change/lube/adjust them.

Jim
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:40 AM
#55
Rad is offline Rad
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Lots of good info so far for ya. If it was my bike, I would do the following:

• Replace pinion seal

• Replace slave cylinder

• Closely inspect all 5 tranny seals, sitting, non-use is harder on seals than use is

• Install new pivot bearings, if they have not been changed yet

• Inspect all wire bundles that run along the frame and that double back, for wear and the outer sheath splitting. Tape them up well.
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:57 AM
#56
tagesk is offline tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad View Post
• Inspect all wire bundles that run along the frame and that double back, for wear and the outer sheath splitting. Tape them up well.
The air-box has a "tab" onto which you strap the "main wire harness" to make
sure the top of the harness doesn't rub against the battery case.



Unless the strap is good and tight, which is hard to do because there is very little space, the tab
itself might rub against the bottom of the harness. You see the result (slightly out of focus).
No less than 14 pages of debugging to find it in the thread Really Dead GS.

[TaSK]
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:26 AM
#57
riggard is offline riggard
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Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
A trolley jack is ideal..
Workplace stool (with wheels) works perfectly too
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:36 AM
#58
SourKraut is offline SourKraut
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Originally Posted by Tbone View Post
Great advice Bounty hunter!

My slave looked like this at 50k.

Mine at 54K miles - I went ahead and replaced it. Bounty Hunter provided a bunch of great advice when I tore into mine - thanks again!

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Old 03-17-2011, 07:11 AM
#59
DELTATANGO is offline DELTATANGO
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Hey Mr. Cob,

You have to break these motorcycles in half to get there.

I would replace every seal and wearing surface.

Because you'll be out on that road in the middle of nowhere and................
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:28 AM
#60
Jim Moore is offline Jim Moore
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Mr Cob,

A bad clutch slave cylinder is easy to diagnose and easy to replace. Pull the cap off your reservoir and smell it. If it stinks like gear oil and is cloudy or has weird crap floating in it your slave cylinder is bad. Since you have the cylinder off off you can also see if the center of the cylinder turns smoothly. It should turn smoothly, almost weirdly smooth. If it binds or is gritty, replace it.

At your mileage I wouldn't replace it unless my current one was bad.

When the bike is back together you will be able to feel if the slave cylinder goes bad. The clutch lever will require more throw to disengage the clutch. When you start to feel that you can check the fluid. Sure enough, it will be cloudy. Now it's time for a new slave cylinder. You can replace it without removing the swingarm, so it is not a huge deal.

That being said, if I had my swingarm off on a 100K bike, I'd change it as preventative maintenance. At 54K miles, probably not.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:57 AM
#61
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by Reverse View Post
I'm very impressed. I would be hyperventilating if my bike looked like that... in my own garage

BTW, what's a 'Kurut'?
Howdy Reverse,

I am NOT known for my speeling expertise, I was attempting to sqell the name the Brits called the Germans short for sourkrout see I can't sqell that either.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:56 AM
#62
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy BOUNTY HUNTER,

Hey Chris, I have met you, broken bread with you, and am thankful for your taking care of me and my busted collar bone when I was in your area last year.

Having spent time in your shop I know that you know what your talking about, that said I "will" take your advise on this. Thanks for taking the time to make and post the videos.
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:02 PM
#63
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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Thanks Dave
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:17 PM
#64
rinho is offline rinho
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Nice pics... I'm just out of this mess and you bring me in again !
(actually, not completely off)


IMHO, muddy water is comming trough the clutch rod channel (is bike crossing deep water, realistic to you ?)
First idea, all the way through the channel
2nd idea trough the vent and so through the the inside of the transmission and then, the rear shaft seal is leaking.
Replacing this seal is a little bit tricky... as everything was aparts, I brang the transmission to my favorite Bmw master technicien (wich have a small shop like I love and don't sell anything else than his work) and have him replacing both seal (don't want to have leak in few miles)

I forgot to mention the ground wire... you saw it

On the 8th pic, where the mud could have enter the slave cylinder area.

If you change the clucth, change the spring

A new disc is only 0.025mm more than yours
mine was 5.7 after 100.000Km (60k miles ?)

Flywheel teeth look nice.

Don't do like me... don't forget to plug back the gear indicator before putting the subframe back
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:13 PM
#65
macxx1 is offline macxx1
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I've had my trans out a couple times in the last 6 months.

A good manual is a big help - I found a pretty complete oem type service manual on CD on eBay pretty reasonable.

Another source of info my first time around was the online parts fiche at A&S cycles, or MAX BMW, sometimes couldn't identify what the manual was talking about, or find it.

If you'd like, send me your email and I can copy some info for you about this.

For some additional details: (mine is a roadster R1150R but should be very similar)

I didn't have to unhook any wiring other than the neutral indicator light sender at the bottom rear of the trans. I ended up cutting mine and putting a male/female connector in it outside of the trans. Otherwise you have to unplug the sender wire way under the tank and it's a PITA to thread back thru all the stuff to get it back in and hooked up. The sender is permanent to the wire, and the sender won't quite fit thru the hole in the trans housing at the left bottom rear.

I didn't have to unhook any lights at all.

I didn't have to break into any brake lines - did undo the loops that hold the brake line and ABS sensor wire onto the swingarm. Tied the rear caliper up to the rear frame loosely and was careful when I raised the rear frame up.

You MUST have a heat gun and an IR thermometer to loosen the red loctite on the swingarm pivots, otherwise you'll screw up those very fine threads in the aluminum. 200 deg F does it nicely. And you need to KNOW what temp you're at. Heat a large area as the alum is not very ductile and will crack if you just heat a small area. That's if you DO
disconnect the swingarm from the rear of the trans. Actually easier not to even though harder to manhandle the trans with all that still hooked up.

On the pivots, IF you do that way, clean those threads with a very sharp small awl - all the old loctite should come out of the threads or you'll end up with a false torque reading when reassembling.

The "book" says to use red loctite to reassemble. Many folks use blue loctite and match mark the lock nuts and check them for movement on occasion. I've never read of them moving if they're properly torqued. Mine haven't. The blue loctite is MUCH easier to break loose the next time. Don't need the heat.

Use Honda Moly 60 on your trans input splines, your new clutch disc hub, and on the wear points on your clutch assembly. $10 for a small tube at a Honda bike dealer. Much higher in moly than "moly grease".

You don't need to separate the swingarm from the final drive.

The airbox is a bitch to get out. The book says to remove the fuel distribution lines first. Dont' have to do that. Pop the fuel lines upwards out of the slots at the top front of the airbox as you're starting to wiggle the airbox around to get it out. Reverse to reinstall. That's with the frame way up. There are 2 bolts at the front of the frame ea side.
Remove the bottom ones, only loosen the top ones, and pivot the rear frame on those.

You also don't need to disconnect throttle cables or fuel lines to injectors. Just be careful when raising the rear frame and be sure nothing pulls too tight. My throttle cables pulled up at the very highest point of the frame raising and the outer sheath pulled up enuf to expose the inside cable a little, but when reassembling it pops right back into place. Just make sure the sheaths fit back down into the cable adjuster on both sides.

You do have to remove both footpeg brackets, disconnect the rear master brake cyl from the right footpeg bracket but leave the brake lines intact. The brake mstr cyl pushrod will just fall out of the mstr cyl.

You have to remove the rear brake light switch from inside the brake pedal assembly.

Disconnect the hoses on the right side of the bike just behind the battery, I leave the connectors in the front hose on one and the back hose on the other so I know how they go back together.

Remove the fuel tank, unplug the electrical plug under the right rear of the tank, uncouple the fuel quick disconnects. They're flimsy plastic and will likely crumble. Get the brass QD's from beemer boneyard. Do the same thing there - install them in reverse from one another so they only go together the same way.

Put rags under the QD's to soak up the gas that will spill out. You do NOT want that on your engine - permanent yellow stains that cannot be removed.

The shift linkage disconnects at the pivots - there is a tiny wire clip that goes thru a tiny hole in the ball socket. Pull that out, then the socket comes apart. Put some moly lube in it before you reconnect it.

You can get by without undoing the swingarm from the trans, it's just more difficult and awkward to handle. If you can rig a way to support the trans from underneath (remove your exhaust), then you can manage by just pulling the trans back maybe 8" or so without undoing anything on the rear swingarm or driveshafts. Take your wheel off, remove your
rear caliper and the brake line & sensor wire supports from the swingarm, and slide the whole mess back far enuf to get at the clutch. Not easy, but easier than getting the swingarm pivots apart and back together and the darn driveshaft snapped back onto the output shaft on the rear of the trans.

Get a piece of light rope and tie your rear frame up to the handlebars after you get it raised. You really got to push up hard on it to get it high enuf. Secure the front wheel down so the bike doesn't tip backward after you remove the rear wheel. On the roadster, we tie the H pipe in the exhaust to the front wheel.

Take your battery out and remove the 2 little nuts under the battery. They're the top part of the studs in the rubber cushions on the top front of the trans. They'll be tough to get out of the battery box holes when you pull the trans back, and tough to get back in when reassembling. Just be patient. Having someone lift just a bit more on the rear
frame while doing that helps.

Don't disconnect any of the clutch lines to the slave cyl at the rear top of the trans. Just remove the 3 bolts holding the slave onto the trans and pull it away from the trans. That way you don't have to bleed the clutch, which can be a royal PITA. Check your slave cyl - the front end - for any sign of leakage. If it's wet, replace the slave. You might see some gooey red stuff - that's brake fluid that's leaked out of the slave and gotten hot. Replace the slave. New oem brand slave's cheaper at beemer boneyard, I think about $100. If you've got a fair amount of miles, easier to replace that slave now than later.

Pull the clutch pushrod out of the trans before you remove the trans so you don't bend it. Take note of the little fiber wiper in the groove on the pushrod.

You'll need some guidebolts so you can move the trans straight back and back onto the rear of the engine so you don't bend the input shaft, etc. they're 8mm x 1.25mm thread by at least 115 mm long. Get bolts and cut the heads off. Hard to find, Lowes etc doesn't have them. Fastenal does. McMaster Carr online does, anyone can order from them if you can't find them locally.

After you get the trans pulled back from the engine, clean off the clutch BEFORE you disassemble it and look for 3 colored marks on the 3 major clutch components & flywheel. they should be roughly 120 degrees apart. If you can't find them, use a paint stick and match mark the cover, pressure plate, and flywheel so they go back togehter exactly the same way. Otherwise you'll likely be out of balance.

Also BEFORE you disassemble the clutch, scribe a sharp line around the clutch disc, or use a dab of spray paint, or whatever way to mark the EXACT location of the disc. You can't hardly get clutch alignment tools. When you reassemble, finger tighten the clutch cover over the new disc aligning the disc to the marks as close as possible. Tighten just enuf to hold the disc from slipping down. Lube the disc hub and trans input splines, then carefully push the trans forward so the input shaft enters the clutch disc. Leave the trans in gear and have someone rock the rear hub (leave a couple wheel bolts in it and use a bar or big screwdriver) to rotate the trans input a little to help it find it's way into the clutch disc splines. After you get it to go in, very carefully remove the trans again STRAIGHT BACK without wiggling it up/down or sideways and then tighten the bolts while it's aligned. You MUST use new clutch cover bolts, they're non-reusable torque-to-yield, not expensive from BMW (really!!).

Really helps to have some help to manhandle & maneuver the trans back and forth if you leave the swingarm/rear hub/driveshaft all hooked up, which is easier in the long run. Just rig up some support under the trans and rear hub so it stays roughly at height.

If you do disconnect the swingarm & driveshaft from the rear of the trans, it's a PITA to get the driveshaft front yoke to snap back over the snapring on the trans output shaft, but you gotta do it. Also kind of tough to get the rubber boot back in place. I used a really big screwdriver thru the U joint yoke to pry it back into place.

If you want the info on that email me macx351@yahoo.com

It's not as bad as it sounds, just a lot of unfamiliar stuff the first time thru. The 2nd time I had the trans out, working unhurriedly, took me less than 2 hours. About the same to put back.

Good luck! You CAN do this!

Last edited by macxx1; 03-17-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:45 PM
#66
johnjen is online now johnjen
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That is a helpful synopsis of what needs to be done vs. what doesn't need to be messed with for going in deep.

If this keeps up this tread will wind up in the HoW, with the OP's and others permissions of course.

JJ
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:55 PM
#67
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
That is a helpful synopsis of what needs to be done vs. what doesn't need to be messed with for going in deep.

If this keeps up this tread will wind up in the HoW, with the OP's and others permissions of course.

JJ
Howdy JJ,

Believe me I searched the HoW to see if someone else had documented this, I couldn't find anything. If you think this diatribe is worthy of such honors feel free to put it there. I'll be waiting for parts so it will be a while before I get back to posting, I have a lot of parts to clean and threads to pick Loc-Tite out of before the reassembly begins. Being a camera idiot as well as an inept wrench bender I can't figure out why most of my photos are turning out so bad, I think it has something to do with the shop lights but I don't know how to compensate for them. When it comes to taking photos I just put the camera in "auto mode" and snap away.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:02 PM
#68
johnjen is online now johnjen
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Well then after all of this is over you'll become an Internet legend…

Of course you've already got a head start what with a smilie and the cobbie award already following you around like stray dawgs.

JJ
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:04 PM
#69
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Dave,

For photo shots, do not over light your shot. Use enough for the camera to focus, and then let the flash do the lighting. Also, let the zoom do some of the work. The camera wont like to focus if you hold it too close. Take many shots, you are more likely to get a good one that way, and just delete the bad ones.

I have documented my work with thousands of photos, and believe me, it definitely takes practice.

I am looking forward to the rest of the job! Lots of great advice here.

Jim
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:19 PM
#70
macxx1 is offline macxx1
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For getting good closeups, put the camera on Macro.

The universal symbol is a flower on the mode dial. Pretty much
every digital has that.

Then you can take clear closeups probly to within 3 or 4 inches or so.

Practice with that - diff cameras focus on different spots at that
close of a range. You'll quickly find where you need to aim in relation
to your target to get a sharp focus.

Also often have to turn the flash off but leave exposure on auto,
otherwise you just get a big spot of flash glare.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:27 PM
#71
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

Thanks for the camera tips. I don't have any problems taking photos out side of lighted buildings, some of the photos I have posted in my ride reports are pretty darn good in my opinion quite a few have made it to the "Front Page".

In buildings I have tried with flash, fill in flash and without flash, I really think its something in the shop lights that is confusing the camera and I am too ignorant of manual setting to adjust for it. I have figured out and used the macro setting, that what I used to snap the input shaft splines for example.

My whole life was, is now, and will be a learning experience, I am NOT to proud to ask for advise or learn from others on ANY subject.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:27 PM
#72
billyt53 is offline billyt53
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Macxx1..........Very good info there. Thank you.

Billy


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Old 03-18-2011, 09:29 AM
#73
Jim Moore is offline Jim Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macxx1 View Post
If you do disconnect the swingarm & driveshaft from the rear of the trans, it's a PITA to get the driveshaft front yoke to snap back over the snapring on the trans output shaft, but you gotta do it.
Awesome writeup! I'm not sure about this part though. Just slide it on the splines and whack it a hammer.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:38 AM
#74
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Awesome writeup! I'm not sure about this part though. Just slide it on the splines and whack it a hammer.
Agreed. I wasn't aware that some people were having difficulty re-installing the shaft and swingarm. It is usually pretty simple to do.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:47 AM
#75
Steptoe is offline Steptoe
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Here's a couple of helpful tips.
No need to dismantle the whole drive train ( the driveshaft splines do not need lubing, i've never ever seen splines worn on any "R" series bikes).



Use two dowels ( two long bolts with the heads cut off), inserted into the two middle gearbox mounting holes on each side of the engine, to align and slide the gearbox/finaldrive into place


Also add some copperslip/antisieze paste on the two locating dowels, as the gearbox can, and does, get stuck fast on these. So you or any one else who ever has to take it off again in the future will be eternally grateful


On an 1150, refit the gearbox without the pushrod in place, you can slide it through the gearbox afterwards.
On an 1100, fit the pushrod in place, and slide the gearbox onto it, rather than have the pushrod in the gearbox and try to line up the pushrod and input splines, because it is very easy to bend the pushrod or dislodge the diaphram spring center. ( the picture shown below is of an 1150, because thats what i had in yesterday, and just for the purpose of showing you what i mean )


If your doing the job single handed, as i do everytime, use a trolley jack to lift the gearbox/final drive, and slide the whole unit back in place. I did this one yesterday, and managed to take the pictures with one hand and slide the driveunit back with the other.
Also insert two rear wheel bolts into the final drive, and have the gearbox in gear, that way you can turn the bolts and the gearbox input shaft to help the splines line up as you slot it in.



[
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:19 AM
#76
mike54 is offline mike54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
Here's a couple of helpful tips.
Also insert two rear wheel bolts into the final drive, and have the gearbox in gear, that way you can turn the bolts and the gearbox input shaft to help the splines line up as you slot it in.

[
That's worth a ton to me right there. I've been putting a wrench on the front of the engine and using that to help with the alignment. It's awkward. This sounds way easier. How come I didn't think of that.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:57 AM
#77
JimVonBaden is offline JimVonBaden
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Steptoe speaks from experience, and I agree with much of what he says. However I would still seperate the swingarm and check/clean/lube the pivot bearings.

Jim
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:34 AM
#78
Kawidad is offline Kawidad
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Man, this is an awesome thread. HoW for sure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:55 PM
#79
khpossum is offline khpossum
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Well, finally did my clutch. Thanks to all who spend the time posting pictures and descriptions.

My bike is 02 1150GS, 70,000 miles. Did it for no particular reason, just seemed like a good idea to do it home while I have the time before the long rides start for the season. Clutch was down to 5.9mm, lots of wear left. I am impressed with this clutch. I have had it smoking a few times getting out of trouble. Does not appear it hurt a thing. The clutch slave was not looking too good, but I already had the BeemerBoneYard replacement waiting in the garage. The splines were bone dry, but looked good, no visible wear.

Same troubles as noted by others in this excelent thread: wiring behind left battery support bolt, wiring to the gear indicator switch (I just cut it), the airbox is a real pain in the butt, but I pulled it from under the subframe once lifted.

Now the hard part comes, getting all theser pieces and parts back into place. Especially the airbox and battery cradle looks like they are going to be a fight with only two hands. What do you think, put the airbox in from the top or shove it in place the way it came out (under the subframe). I need to fix the connector for the gear indicator, one of the wires/pins came out. I also ripped the cable going to the rear brake switch, I forgot to disconnect it before lifitng the subframe.

I think I am going to take the swing arm of the gearbox. I know it is not necessary, but I am in it this far, may as well put my hands on everything I can.

Again, thanks for this great thread.

KP
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:20 PM
#80
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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It'll go back together just fine. Take your time and ask questions if you are not 100% sure of the next step. Good luck.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:29 PM
#81
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

Its been a long time since I replied to this thread, I guess after I got the bike back together and had the hack installed I just had to much fun riding it to finish it off.

Thanks to BOUNTYHUNTER ( Chris ) for all of his help both by phone and video, with his help I got the beast back in running order. The hardest part was doing all of this by myself, holding stuff in the proper location whilst stating bolts can be a real pain in the arse, getting that airbox back into position had to be the worst part of the job. Thanks Chris, I couldn't have done it with out your guidance.

Here's a shot of the finished rig after the clutch, drive-shaft and final drive were rebuilt or replaced.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:39 PM
#82
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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Dave, you are more than welcome. I was happy to help just sad that I was so pressed for time and buried with other work that I couldn't have made it easier for you. Hopefully you are happy with Bruno's work despite the lack of communication and great delay in getting your parts. I'd hope that the lower ratio rear drive is keeping a big smile on your face. I have a couple of those 2:91 ratio units now. Anyway, as always, if you need help... just yell.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:46 PM
#83
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOUNTY HUNTER View Post
Dave, you are more than welcome. I was happy to help just sad that I was so pressed for time and buried with other work that I couldn't have made it easier for you. Hopefully you are happy with Bruno's work despite the lack of communication and great delay in getting your parts. I'd hope that the lower ratio rear drive is keeping a big smile on your face. I have a couple of those 2:91 ratio units now. Anyway, as always, if you need help... just yell.
Howdy Chris,

I have only put about 1,000 miles on the rig since it was completed, so far I am VERY happy with how it turned out. Bruno's work was as good as you told me it would be, everything fit and works well. The 3.36:1 final drive ratio is perfect for this rig, 72 mph indicated at 4,000 rpm in 6th gear this gives around 30 mpg about the same as the Ural but MUCH faster. I am liking this rig.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:38 PM
#84
TUCKERS is online now TUCKERS
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Ricardo,

You Sir must be a master wrench bender and I say that with sincere respect, if you can change one of these clutches in 2.5 hours you are a GS God.

I spent the better part of three hours today just getting the phucking gear shift indicator wire unplugged at its junction up in front of the ABS unit and then threading that wire out from behind all the other stuff it was originally installed BEHIND. What ever those Kuruts were smoking when they designed and assembled this piece of Teutonic madness must have been some good shit.

However, I did succeed in getting it all tore down, if it will ever be put back together and run again is something I won't take any bets on.
I just cut this set of wires then got a connector from Radio Shack that I installed mid-line YMMV
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:59 PM
#85
TUCKERS is online now TUCKERS
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Mr.Cob. Wasn't that you who took me down Twenty Mule Road in DV on your Ural? I played monkey and believe we set a new lap record.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:04 PM
#86
Mr. Cob is offline Mr. Cob
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Mr.Cob. Wasn't that you who took me down Twenty Mule Road in DV on your Ural? I played monkey and believe we set a new lap record.
Howdy TUCKERS,

Please forgive me, I have met so darn many people names just kinda get lost in whats left of my minds confusion. I can usually remember faces or machines so a photo would help stir my memory or what's left of it. I have given a few folks who were crazy enough to jump in the sidecar on my rig a ride and have done so on the twenty mule team road so the chances are pretty good that you were one of them, you are crazy aren't you
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:42 PM
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TUCKERS is online now TUCKERS
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Yeah crazy! We went very fast, I was leaning out like a maniac.

I grabbed you at the entrance to the campground for DVDaze a couple years ago or more. Either you or your Ural partner anyway.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:29 PM
#88
khpossum is offline khpossum
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Allright, clutch installed. Tonight I slid the gear box back on with the help of my daughter. Teenagers can come in handy once in a while. It slid back into place until there is a about 1/8" gap left. Won't move any closer by manhandling it. It will match either on top or at the bottom, but not both at the same time. Battery box bolts more or less in the right location, they are not holding things back either. Normal to have this gap? Suck it in with the bolts? I do not have the clutch slave installed, so it is not holding things back. The shaft turns the engine, so the splines are engaged, as they should be with the gearbox this close to its final destination. Peaking thru the gap there is about 1/4" of the splines still visible.

Help, anybody? Don't want to force and break things now

KP
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:13 PM
#89
BOUNTY HUNTER is offline BOUNTY HUNTER
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The transmission is not completely aligned. Possibly a dowel pin is preventing final alignment. Tap the back of the transmission w/ a rubber mallet and see if that gets it to close up.
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Unread Today, 10:33 PM
#90
Uncledeadly is online now Uncledeadly
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Question Major disaster!
Riding home after D2D had some problems......went to pass a transport truck on steamboat mountain noticed clutch slip.....pulled over and noticed no end play....set it up and slipping was much less but still there....thought I could limp it home.....a couple more hours and disaster!
went to stop at some construction.....NO clutch.....got it herded to a stop and noticed tranny fluid on my right boot....and more flowing out on the ground
After a 3.5 hr tow and 14 hours in the back of my pickup I'm home and ready to investigate....

Great thread!

The only question I have.....when tilting up the rear....what about the brake hard lines?
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